AI or Not

E006 - AI or Not - Kiat Neo and Pamela Isom

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Welcome to "AI or Not," the podcast where we explore the intersection of digital transformation and real-world wisdom, hosted by the accomplished Pamela Isom. With over 25 years of experience guiding leaders in corporate, public, and private sectors, Pamela, the CEO and Founder of IsAdvice & Consulting LLC, is a veteran in successfully navigating the complex realms of artificial intelligence, innovation, cyber issues, governance, data management, and ethical decision-making.

Unlock the secrets to successfully blending business goals with cutting-edge AI technology in our latest episode of AI or Not. Join us as Kiat Neo, Sr. Manager, Solutions Architect Executive, GDIT,  shares his expert insights on leveraging enterprise architecture to align AI solutions with strategic business objectives. Discover why AI should be seen as more than just an IT function and how to evaluate its suitability for tackling specific challenges. Kiat provides practical strategies on maximizing return on investment in digital transformation initiatives, ensuring your organization not only keeps up with the times but gains a competitive edge.

We also take a deep dive into the ethical dimensions of AI in healthcare. From AI's role in recognizing and categorizing COVID-19 symptoms to assisting in 911 call handling, we explore real-world examples that highlight the essential balance between human judgment and AI predictions. Kiat stresses the importance of ethical use and integrity in AI technologies to prevent potential harm. Listen in as we tackle pressing questions about what keeps us up at night regarding AI and what gives us peace of mind, emphasizing the crucial interplay between ethical applications and the human element in AI-driven decision-making.



Pamela Isom:

This podcast is for informational purposes only. Personal views and opinions expressed by our podcast guests are their own and not legal advice, neither health tax, nor professional nor official statements by their organizations. Guest views may not be those of the host views may not be those of the host.

Pamela Isom:

Hello and welcome to AI or Not, the podcast where business leaders from around the globe share wisdom and insights that are needed now to address issues and guide success in your artificial intelligence and digital transformation journey. My name is Pamela Isom. I am your podcast host. We have a very special guest with us today Kiat Neo. Kiat is Solution Architect, executive and Senior Manager in the private sector. I met him when I was Director of Application Engineering and Development at the US Patent and Trademark Office. He's a sharp leader with numerous certifications that blend business and technology. I'm going to turn it over to Kiat now to introduce himself and tell us a little bit more about himself. Kiat, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you, and tell me more about yourself, your career. Tell me how you got where you are today. Tell us a little bit more about your goals.

Kait Neo:

Yeah, so it's an honor and I appreciate this opportunity, pam, to be able to be invited for this podcast, to be invited for this podcast. I've been in the IT industry for over 30 years currently as an enterprise architect for a Fortune 100 company providing IT solution architect, enterprise architect solution to various agencies in the federal government. My career started maybe my goal was to be able to keeping up with the technology and maintain a strong understanding of the project, so I have been pursuing both at the same time and I'm currently as a certified PMP Scrum Master and IT location. We've been doing a lot of projects in the past with the cloud and big data and AI. So that's in a nutshell.

Pamela Isom:

Now that's fabulous, so that's good. I love how you blend business and technology. I heard you mention PMP, which is interesting because I have a speaking engagement coming up and they're asking me about the PMP and how it's impacted by AI, which I'm going to be speaking to and really laying out where I see the changes and the improvements. That's really good. I'm impressed. I may have to touch base with you before my talk and I love how you are also a certified Scrum Master. It's interesting how you blend business and technology, which I find helps when you're trying to address challenges and solve problems in this day and time. How is that helping you with your AI journey?

Kait Neo:

Yes, definitely. With my current role as an enterprise architect, I constantly have to bridge between the business goal and the technology, the business goal and the technology. So, as you know, any projects to be successful you need to connect the two, especially in AI, where the business has to also understand that. They have to skill up with understanding the literacy of AI, how it applies in the real world, plus how that could impact the AI algorithm design business processes. You really cannot dedicate all your AI knowledge to the IT because, as a result, it could end up with IT running the AIs and that may not sync with what the business objectives.

Pamela Isom:

Okay, so what you're saying is that we don't want to look at AI as an information technology solution only, as a information technology solution only. You want us to look at AI from the business perspective as well as the technology perspective. And then you mentioned enterprise architecture. You were saying that the EA is the one that glues that together.

Kait Neo:

Correct, correct. So another perspective is to understand the business objective and business goal and align with their strategic alignment, basically, and how the business is going to apply AI in achieving their business goal business goal.

Pamela Isom:

Yeah, I love this discussion because what you're doing is you're helping me see your perspectives on coming up with a strategy. So what I find is, in talking to other people and just my experiences working with clients today, that there needs to be diligence around determining whether or not AI is the right fit for not for your organization, but for the problems that need to get solved and the innovations that need to be solved in support of the mission of the organization. So I know that organizations are wanting to get a competitive advantage, so many are adopting AI, but many have not thought through some use cases that make the most sense. So when I was listening to you a moment ago, what I heard was that we want to think about the business objectives, think about the business goals, about the business objectives, think about the business goals and then, as we're thinking through those objectives, let that guide whether AI is the appropriate solution for addressing those goals or is it something else, or is it a hybrid thereof AI and something else and I believe what you're saying is that this capability, enterprise architecture and something else. And I believe what you're saying is that this capability, enterprise architecture and just marrying business and technology helps us and helps guide us through that process, and I agree with you totally.

Pamela Isom:

I was reading this morning about digital transformation and there were some statistics out there that said 5%, 10% ROI is what's been achieved from digital transformation, as opposed to the projected 150% return on investment. And then we started looking into why is that the case? Because we're concerned that AI is another form of digital transformation. It's a disruptor, but it's also a part of the digital transformation, and so how do we get those numbers up? And so what you are pointing out made me think of that and how we really want to think through those use cases and how do we go about choosing the AI tools. Did I get that right? Is there anything else you want to add?

Kait Neo:

tools. Did I get that right? Is there anything else you want to add? That's very accurate. Really, ai can bring about the change in how organizations, enterprises, should be applying the technology that comes along, because AI is not just about the algorithm. It's a lot of infrastructure involved, a lot of decision-making involved and how it can bring about the chain management and human insight perspective into the mix. Ai alone is not the answer for everything. The way I view it, as far as the technology roadmap and enterprise solution required to look at all the different facts and various perspectives, how we could actually adapt AI in a safe environment, in a safe and ethical perspective.

Pamela Isom:

I love that. I appreciate you sharing that. So tell me more about when. We talked before and we've been involved in a couple of conversations. I'm going to shift gears just a little bit. Tell me more about your perspectives on AI and healthcare. What's your take there and how do you see AI supporting or not supporting healthcare?

Kait Neo:

I am very passionate with healthcare. In fact I can tell a little story, so a short story about my involvement several years ago almost like six years ago where I got involved as an angel investor to start up in healthcare. So I see a startup with healthcare in training doctors, where I met with a group of doctors and planners that want to bring about the change of how to bring AI into the pictures, of helping improving training education. So it didn't happen until this chat GPT evolution came around. That really changed the whole perspective of training. And this little startup has now grown into multiple countries and, if I may name the company, it's Med2Lab, wow. So they have been invited and providing solutions to prestigious universities like Stanford National University of Singapore and providing education AI, chat GPT related type of training.

Pamela Isom:

And it's called Met2Lab right.

Kait Neo:

Yes.

Pamela Isom:

I tried it out. So I was curious when we talked what a couple months ago about this startup and all that you were doing. And so I actually took one of the training classes, and the training class that I took had to do with COVID, and it helped recognize symptoms and categorize those symptoms to evaluate whether there was a possibility that a person had COVID or some other type of issue. And I thought it was pretty good because I saw that it modeled behaviors, it asked questions, but it wasn't like a question intense system, and so I really liked it, and I think that that's a good use case for AI and also helps to make the point that AI is part of that digital transformation cycle and we have to start thinking about ways that we can use it to help us in our lives. And so I did try it out, just so you'll know, and I found it helpful. So I don't know how well everything is going. I know it's international, but I did find the tool helpful and I'm hoping to see more tools like that in the market.

Kait Neo:

Yes, awesome In terms of transforming healthcare. Ai brings about lots of improvement in the healthcare. Actually, we heard of Google Imaging. We're applying AI in testing, in review. However, I do think AI alone is not the answer for everything, so we need to include human in the middle to review certain, let's say, medical diagnosis solution. So I think it's still in the progress of making prediction. So I read a book I mentioned. I read a book about predictive machine. So AI, really a predictive machine. We can think of it as a software that helping us making decisions, though ultimately, that's we should make that decision.

Pamela Isom:

That's what my view especially when it comes to healthcare where I'm concerned. Okay, so that's a good point. I agree with you again. So what I find is that we tend to lean too heavily on technology, and this kind of comes up quite a bit in some of the discussions that I've been having. So it's a common concern.

Pamela Isom:

We tend to lean too heavily on the predictions that the machines are providing and not inserting the common sense, and so what we want to do is make sure that we don't lose sight of our common sense and make sure that our human judgment remains in the loop, because, with the humans in the loop concept and all that that you're saying, and humans in the middle, I do believe that if we maintain our human judgment and don't let the machines judge for us, then we can bounce, so we can take the predictions, we can put them into perspective, and that's the same way with robotics and robots.

Pamela Isom:

So it's a little bit different because it depends on the use case, but I think in all cases there needs to be a way for humans. Even with autonomous driving, autonomous vehicles, there needs to be a way for humans to override. If they are not able to override, if there's a defect in the machine, it can cause significant harm, but I heard you say that it really depends on the use case, and certainly in the healthcare field. I have a question for you, or something that I wanted to discuss, and that is what keeps you up at night when it comes to AI technology or governance or this digital transformation world in which we live. Name something that keeps you up at night, if there is anything, and then also tell me what gives you peace of mind.

Kait Neo:

As an enterprise architect, I would say, applying solutions that involve AI, it's very much dependent on use cases that you mentioned. So I think, in terms of start-up companies, you focus on making sure it's applying ethical and also integrity of an individual when they are applying a solution. So we heard of all these AI applications like DeepFake and all the others that could be applied and it could be. In the wrong hands, applying the right approach and in the right objectives, it could bring tremendous changes and benefits to humans, mankind. So I would also say that, having AI, it could really transform business, especially in various types of technology that could be automated using AI tools. But I think that the advancement will make human more successful. So it's a compliment to the human, to the mankind.

Pamela Isom:

Yeah, so the human, the use cases, give you peace of mind, as long as we use them with ethics and integrity in mind. Is that what I heard? Yes, okay, I think that's a good response and I agree with you too on that. I actually was in a meeting yesterday and I was listening to Homeland Security and they were speaking to a use case for AI pertaining to 911 calls and how we want to start using AI to help mitigate some of the risks associated with the 911 calls, like a backlog and making sure that the calls are routed to the appropriate people and that there's no challenges when those calls come through. And I thought that was a really good use case. And I go back to what you started out with when you said we want to look at what are the good use cases, which means we have to understand our mission and understand that, yes, ai is something that could give us competitive advantage, true, but it could also cause harms, and so what they were doing was they were going through that what's going to make the most sense. So they decided that it makes sense in the call handling area and like that, but they're very selective about what the use cases will be and then the rest will be other technologies, and so it reminded me of that because there are good use cases will be. And then the rest will be other technologies. And so it reminded me of that because there are good use cases.

Pamela Isom:

There are other use cases. I use AI to help me out because I'm a small business and I can't do everything myself, so it's like a helping hand. But there are some more serious use cases, like the one with DHS that they mentioned yesterday, and these are 911 calls. So you really have to balance that out. You have to really have some good safeguards in place to ensure that your solutions are going to be not introducing harms and that they're ethical and safe solutions. So I like what you said and I heard what you said. I have one more thing that I want to know. Yeah, so we always ask are there words of wisdom or experiences that you'd like to share with me? So, on this call that you'd like to talk about, and also that we can carry forward to the listeners. So what you got, that we can carry forward to the listeners.

Kait Neo:

So what you got? So a little part about this is, like I mentioned also, this is do not it's a C-suite. This is a message for the C-suite Do not dedicate your AI's function to the IT, because that could potentially even change your organization strategy and direction. For the learner, and as I'm one of them, it's continued learning. Ai is just beginning and thinking about the transformation in the technology in the business, in the technology in the business, and I would think that, whether you're a student, even as a career architect, you still continue to have to learn the technology, because these changes are going to be very impactful and if we're not careful, it could bring about even a threat to the human if it's applied wrongly.

Pamela Isom:

Okay. So I heard you say do not delegate your AI responsibility to the IT shop, and I understand that that's because you're wanting us to understand that it's not just about technology, us to understand that it's not just about technology, and remember that the digital transformation journey AI or not is a continuous journey. And then AI reminds us that it's really a continuous journey because we're in the early stages of AI and there's more evolutions to come. It means it's evolving every day. And then you said to be careful, because the goodness of AI could be harmful, and so you want to be sure that we integrate safeguard practices with what we're doing so that the good stays good and is adding value to society and not causing harm. How about that? Did I get it right?

Pamela Isom:

I can't speak it any better than that. I want to thank you for joining me today for this podcast, and I'm so glad that we know each other and that we continue to work together. That's a real blessing to me. You're a good person with a good, strong vision. Again, I love how you blend business and technology and, believe it or not, through this call, you helped people understand the value again of enterprise architecture. This whole conversation has been about enterprise architecture without dwelling on those two words, so I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to seeing organizations start to really think through those use cases and stay focused on the mission. Don't be so quick to just grab AI because we want the strategic advantage to be sustainable and for it to be sustainable, we need to practice some of the things that we talked about here. So I truly appreciate you and thank you for everything that you've been doing. Thank you for joining this show and we'll talk later. And are there any parting words? Anything else?

Kait Neo:

No, thank you so much. It's an honor, thank you. Thank you Great.